we know an increase in the marginal tax rates, that's a tax increase. but what about capping deductions? from your standpoint of the pledge, would that be considered a violation of the pledge to cap deductions, as some republican lawmakers are now suggesting? >> this is not a trick question. the pledge says no raising rates, no broadening the base unless rates come down dollar for dollar. the pledge is only two sentences but they are very clear. one of the reasons why eliminating deductions and credits, obama wants a trillion plus dollars worth of tax increase that way, is that if you do that, you've just got a tax reform for decades to come, because how do you reduce marginal tax rates so we can become competitive in the world on the corporate and the individual side, if you have already given away to the appropriators and spenders all the deductions and credits. >> one final question, grover. it seems some liberals out there want to make this personal. more and more about you, about your role in encouraging these republicans by and large to support th